Update: The person who sent the original photos, kindly asked me to remove the photos, as he is putting the experience in the past. So, I agreed, as I can understand his request. Unfortunately, these blog posts open people like me to ridicule, because we apparently can’t drive, are always speeding and in general just have a complete disregard for what a modern 4×4 should be capable of.
I have no idea whether this story is true or not, as I don’t know the person who sent it in to me. As the owner of a Toyota Fortuner that used to feel really unsafe (before I spent R11000 to upgrade the tires, shocks will have to wait) on gravel roads, I can certainly see how this story can be true.
I first received a comment from him on one of the complaints I received.
I rolled my Fortuner approx. a year ago on a dirt road when the tail
broke loose at a corrugated section.Was travelling at about 90km/hour;
this after a Isuzu overtook me and continued over the same stretch of
road. Travelled the same road before in Colt Rodeo @ approximately
110km/hour without any incident.
Toyota can defend as much as they want to, but this vehicle is
DANGEROUS on gravel roads; especially if you do not reduce tyre
pressure. On tar roads it is an absolute pleasure to drive
I wrote back, and he gave me more detail.
This was the first accident I was involved in and it was nearly fatal.
I was too thankful that I survived to even go to Toyota, although most
people advised me to take it further.At this stage I am extremely angry
as I initially blamed myself by thinking that I lost concentration and
that was the cause of the accident. I’ve been driving on gravel roads
for the better part of my life and those who know me said I must have
been driving too fast, which was not the case. The worst part was that
I had to walk for over 2 hours to get help as I was uncertain of the
extent of my injuries. Am still affected by this entire nightmare and
like I say, I am so angry!
His second last sentence left me cold. It’s one thing to be in an accident on town, but it’s another thing when you are out in the sticks with your family, enjoying and trusting your 4×4, and then something like this happens.
I had to walk for over two hours to get help…
Damn. I asked him to sent me the photo’s, which he did…
April 14th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Fortuner’s are a potential death trap.I have owned two.The first was written off after a car hill it from the side and the impact cause the Fortuner to veer into the oncoming lane.The replacement within weeks of purchase the Fortuner would activate the EBD which would cause the vehicle to veer to the right.Initially it could be controlled however lately it has gone out of control by veering to the right ,activateing the EBD and then going in a spin or more.Once going up the Kei River Mountain Pass it spin 4 times across the N3 before I was able to gain controll.When reported to Toyota they had little concern.The second time also on the National Road it again activated the EBD and spun .This time the road was narrower and the fortuner when down a mountain before been controlled.
Both these incidents have occurred on wet to slightly wet tar roads
during the day and going uphill.in both instances speed was not a factor and the road surface had no potholes or other.
We tested another car on the same road and activated its EBD and it work -no spin just a warn sound.
January 6th, 2012 at 9:38 am
A close friend of mine including his wife and mother in law is currently laying in ICU (milpark hospital) due to a near fatal accident due to his 2008 Toyota fortuner. He was traveling on a gravel road in Namibia a near week ago when the vehicle slid off the road and rolled several times. This left his wife paralised as she broke her back in two places, broke her shoulder and hand. My friend broke a neck vertabra and fractured another, broke his hand and wrist on 5 places, badly brused face and very traumatised. His mother in law broke both legs, 5 ribs on one side and a few on the other and is in an induced coma. Badly brused face…. His father in law were just badly brused up but had to walk kilometres without shoes in tempratures of 50 d/c to get cellphone reception just to call for help while his family were laying helpless in the scortching sun between sand and stone.
The thing is they were traveling very slow. When he purchased the vehicle he was concerned about the stigma surrounding the instability of these vehicles. He was assured by the Toyota sales man that nun of it is true but suggested he upgrade the suspention which he did R12000 later.
Toyota should be held accountable for these accidents and take responsibility. These vehicles are unsafe and there is definately something wrong.
December 26th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
There is nothing wrong with the latest version of fortuner. they have put bigger better tyres on and added electronics to it. I have a 2010 fortuner and have just added a hilux double cab in to my collection. both D4d and 4×4 if you are alert while driving nothing should happen. i drive my fortuner at 100km/h on gravel with ease. if you feel like the road is little too loose slip it into high range. i believe the fortuner has a very comfy ride with lots of power so people tend to get over confident off road. i spend over 50% of my time off road. focus on driving and you’ll be fine.
December 14th, 2010 at 11:27 am
I came upon this site by chance. My brother lost a friend in a Toyota Fortuner that rolled. He then bought a Toyota bakkie and took my father on a hunting trip. My father drove the vehicle and in a slight curve the rear broke away and my father almost lost control. He came back and told my brother that he should get rid of that rubbish. (We grew up on a farm and had been driving gravel roads for many years.)
My brother kept the bakkie. Later he and a friend was driving on the highway. The vehicle hit a puddle of water, aquaplaned and rolled. When he confronted Toyota they said he should have done some conversion to the vehicle that would have solved the problem – it would have cost him over R100 000.
I have since heard of many more people who had similar experiences. It seems that these vehicles also do not “correct” easily. Even on dry tar roads. If you suddenly swerve to avoid a collision you will be PROPERLY TESTED to keep them on their wheels. A friend of mine lost his nephew when a Toyota bakkie rolled when he swerved on the higway.
There is definately a problem with the Fortuner and other Toyota bakkies with high ground clearance. My brother-in-law worked for Toyota and he told us that they are aware of the problem, but will not budge on fixing it. Some people even refer to them as “Flip-Flops”. They had a feature on an Afrikaans motoring (La’t wiel – or something like that) program of the Fortuner where the driver spoke about the “driver errors” and said they had no problems on dirt roads in Namibia. I still clearly remember the video they showed of the vehicle crawling around a bend in the road – and they want us to believe what they were saying.
I suppose it may be a good purchase for those who want to spend a lot of money on conversions afterwards, go on special driver’s courses, have to contact your dealer before buying tyres to find out if they are compatible and still have the adrenalin rush every time you drive – not knowing how the vehicle will behave if something goes wrong.
This will be my only posting, but I think it is important that people should know when they are getting a raw deal. Especially if the dealers know what they are doing.
January 9th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Hi,
My sister;’s son -in-aw was killed on the 2nd Of December in ‘n fortuner. No one know what happend.the Fortuner also rolled
March 13th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Hi,
I have worked on many projects around the world and I can tell you that in the oil industry the Hilux is banned by most companies.The call it the “Rollux”
April 14th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Hey Guys,
I have been driving a KZTE since 2002, and wanted to upgrade to a Fortuner, until I came across this blog. Now I am confused: Has the stability issue been sorted out now, with the new vehicles having different tyres & suspension & electronic stbilisation?
Also, to put this into perspective: I have never felt unstable in my KZTE, and have done lots of km on gravel & towing. Was this reported stability issue already the case on the KZTE? If so, I can live with it happily.
March 27th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
The best things is to upgrade rotor disc with heavy duty ie ventilated disc, to replace original shock obserber with KONI, use broad rim and drive soundly.
December 4th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
My advise to everyone here is that, while driving the fortuner 4×4 on currogations or gravel tracks its best to lower the tyre pressure. the fortuner does not like hard tyre pressures while offroad. A 2.3 in the front and 2.4 at the back will do the trick.
I drive a fortuner 4×4 2.7 petrol myself..and have had no problems with it what so ever. whether it be on gravel, or sand, or mud.
so i say reduce the tyre pressures and your good to go.:)
December 1st, 2009 at 1:26 pm
I also had a Fortuner D-4D 4×4 that I purchased in October 2008. At the stage I asked the Toyota dealer if the instability problem was sorted out and I was told that there are no problems on the Fortuner. The Toyota dealer fitted a Toyota tow bar to the Fortuner as I told them that I will be towing a caravan. I even fitted a Toyota supplied drop plate to the tow bar. I also bought a trapezium stabilizer to make absolutely sure that I am correctly rigged. I felt from the start that the Fortuner was not very stable on the road without even towing anything. I thought at first that it was my impression as I had a Toyota D-4D 4×4 double cab before the Fortuner. I could never tow the caravan above 90km as it felt like if you are on a rough see with a small boat. When the Fortuner went in for its 20000km service (5 October 2009), I complained about the swerving saying that it feels if the shocks are gone. The Toyota dealer then informed me that I had the wrong batch of General tyres on the Fortuner. Looking at the batch of tyres, the new batches were already available 4 months before I purchased the Fortuner and still Toyota fitted the wrong batch, putting the life’s of myself and my family in danger. Toyota insisted that I should replace the tyres with the new General or else they will not pay for the reminder of the km left on the tyres. At that stage, I had no confidence in the General tyres and fitted BF Goodrich A/T tyres. On 5 November 2009 I went on leave with my wife and grandson (2 ½ years old) to the Kruger Park towing my caravan. I could feel that there was a difference in the handling but still it was an afford to keep the Fortuner on the road. In Caroline I stopped to make sure that every thing was still ok with the caravan, checking tyres, see that nothing shifted in the caravan etc. At about 10km outside of Carolina towards Baberton, the Fortuner just started fish tailing at 86 km/h. It was a strait road with a downhill (not very steep) I tried to accelerate to straighten the caravan, but this just worsened the problem. We started swaying all over the road and I just felled that I could not control the Fortuner any more and I tried to get the speed down as far as possible before swaying into the armco barriers overturning the Fortuner and caravan. Luckily no one was seriously injured.
The bad about the situation is that I drove 15 Toyotas already. I could not come in contact with any of the Toyota management (I was refused to speak to management). The best I could do was to talk to the Customer Service department or the local Toyota dealer. Toyota did not even want to allow me to be present when they inspected the Fortuner and accident scene. Toyotas conclusion is that nothing braked before the accident that could cause the accident and that I was driving with non Toyota approved tyres. (BF Goodrich A/T) Toyota can say as much as they want, but my feeling is that the suspension of the Fortuner is at fault. How many accidents must there be or lives lost before they admit it? At my question to Toyota as to why they did not recall the Fortuners with the faulty tyres in the first place, their answer was that if I do not phone them, then I don’t have a problem.
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Deon, thanks for this story, which unfortunately I have heard many times. Drop me an email, and I will give you a contact number of Toyota management.
October 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
All i can gather is that speeding gets blamed for all the mishaps
I drive a 3.0 D4D and find problems at 30km/hr on a gravel road.the bak seems to slide out and the only way to save it is to hang on to the steering wheel and let go of the rest.Toyota has changed the tyres but it did not make any difference.They are now changing the rear shock absorbers.It also has a nose dip when you turn to the right at 120km/hr.on tar.Must also share some good fortune(r) with you.Took it for a service at the biggest vereeniging Toyota dealer and received it back damaged.They bumped it !!! not once but three times.right front door,right rear door and left rear door.This must have happened while the Toyota representative was inspecting it.unfortunately nobody knows how it happened.
Will let you all know if the shock absorbers made any difference.
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Thanks Ben, did your new shocks sort out the problem?
KC
December 10th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Hi KC
There has been a slight improvement the road that i normally use to test it, can now be driven at appr.60 km/hr where i was only capable of doing 40km/hr previously.To put things clear i also own a KB3000 LX Isuzu D/Cab this vehicle does the same trip at 90km/hr without any fishtailing whatsoever.I have heard that Toyota has fitted new stabelizer bars and a new rear suspension to the back
and the vehicle problems was solved.I was also told by the dealer that fitted the shocks that i must not advertise that they fitted new shocks as they cannot do it to all the vehicles.I am still amazed that Toyota has not called all these problem vehicles in to fix them.Renault,BMW,Ford and volkswagen has called vehicles in for repairs.TOYOTA ????????????Ps.i have driven over 4 000 000 km in Toyotas.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Ben, Can you tell me what type of shocks they fitted, and what other suspension modifications they made to your vehicle?
My Sept 2007 Fortuner has exactly the same handling problems on currugations, and as the shocks age the poor handling gets even worse. My old 1996 Nissan Sani does the same road with the same driver in half the time, safely!
October 20th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Hi gents i think the problems come with the driver I own a fortuner myself 4×2 D4D NO PROBLEM on gravel roads steady as a rock.Go for some driving lessons at GEROTECH THEY WILL TEACH U HOW TO HANDLE A VEHICLE
enjoy your fortuners they the best thing since Captain Morgan.
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:07 pm
hey Koos
Have another Captain
KC
December 4th, 2009 at 6:46 am
Koos, I have been driving 15 Toyotas up to date. In my earlier years I have even been driving a Toyota in the Radio 5 Rally. I have even been up in Africa towing a caravan. Now it seems that all of a sudden one needs to go for driving lessons to keep a Fortuner on the road!!
December 9th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Koos B$#$# S$%$%$%, my daughter totaled a d4d 4×4 Bakkie on the Toyota Advance driver course and still got the certificate to declare her competent. What a joke!!!! I will gladly forward the photos and certificate. i myself also attended what a waste of money
December 10th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Hi Koos
Is this your first SUV.
August 9th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
The Toyota Fortuner is not the only SUV with a high centre of gravity and a strong engine being driven on our gravel roads. How many other strong, high, SUV models have a roll-over problem. If all models roll, then it is a driver problem. If it is only Fortuners, then it is a Fortuner problem.
My humble opinion is: The Fortuner is a great car, but the engine is too strong for the suspension setup of the older models if it does not have an electronic stability control system. Us non-racing drivers are not equipped with the driving skill to drive such a combination (strong engine, bakkie suspension without ESC) on gravel roads at speeds that allow the back end to break away. Sad thing is that we only realise we are at that speed once it is too late, so drive slower. Yes, the other cars can go faster without rolling over, but they somehow manage to keep the wheels in contact with the ground better than a Fortuner. So, if you like speeding on gravel, don’t buy a Fortuner. If you have one, enjoy it and drive slowly on the corrugated gravel roads. The rest should be fine.
PS: Aquaplaning requires speed and/or run down thread.
August 23rd, 2009 at 9:34 am
Hi Chris
Thanks for your post. I need to add though, and I have said this many times; you don’t need to speed for the car to behave erratically. We had a “gatswaai” at less than 50km’s per hour.
August 5th, 2009 at 11:18 am
is the 4×4 any more stable than the 4×2 off road with the permanent all wheel drive?
August 13th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Hi Nils
I don’t think there’s an easy answer. The old 4×2 had no traction control, so my logic tells me that in the previous shape, the 4×4 must have been more stable. Then again, the reason for this website is because I felt my 4×4 was unstable.
The new 4×4 has traction control, and people tell me it’s amazingly stable.
Thanks for your comment.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Hi Marius
Thanks for your post. I actually considered for one second to not allow your post. All the “Fortuner owners who complain are speeding” yappers will jump on your post in a second if they see it.
But what the hell; let’s see if someone use this as proof of our driving skills.
July 29th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Please note that all 4 wheels are still intact (not even punctured!); the reason why the roof is flattened is because the car flipped over (ONCE ONLY)and landed on it’s roof onto a concrete embankment +/- 3 meters below the road. Recovering the vehicle from where it landed also caused more damage.
I have not visited your site in quite a long time and it is disheartening to see some of the comments. I sent my original comment a year after the accident; I do not want to fight with Toyota nor argue with the insurance assessor or Anshu about speed. What I initially wanted, was to also voice my concern regarding the gravel road handling (and perhaps save a life…) and mostly to vent my anger.
A colleague has bought the latest Fortuner and I envy him for driving this vehicle. I would probably still had mine if I had known then what I know now!
Kaptein, I think that (1) Toyota has somewhat addressed the vehicle’s shortcoming with this new one and (2) more people have become aware of the Fortuner issue hence I kindly request that you remove the pictures from your website. Die beterweters moet maar oor ‘n ander se lot ga bespiegel.
On the 26th August I will celebrate life and once again be reminded that the 1 or 2 seconds lost during the accident have now been turned into 2 years of living!
Baie dankie vir die blootstelling en gewillige oor.
August 13th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Elkin
I completely understand your reason for sending the mail originally, and also your feelings towards people ridiculing your experience and driving ability.
Thank you for your nicely worded message. I will remove the photos as requested, and put a note up informing people about it. The post I will keep, but without the images.
KC
July 30th, 2009 at 8:10 am
As dit nie was vir die 2 agtersitplekke wat regop staan, was die ou Fortuner nog platter(just have a closer look at the photo)! Marius, imagine travelling in excess of 100km/h with your kids occupying the 3rd row seats and something unforeseen happens!
Nobody wants to be in an accident but I prefer being in a RAV, L/Cruiser, Santa Fe, etc
June 16th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Hi guys,
This certainly makes for interesting reading, as I am the owner of a 2007 D4D fortuner. I love driving, and travel about 50 000k’s per year on tar roads. Experience tells me that these vehicles are seriously great for normal speeds, escpeacially with some weight on it. However, if you tend to speed this is probably not the right SUV to do it in. Mine is chipped and I frequently do speeds in excess of 190km per hour, which is stupid and dangerous. The high centre of gravity makes it unstable, and tyre pressures does make a difference. I will go as low as 200kpa to ensure a soft ride under normal conditions. My summary: It’s a cost effective vehicle, and actually a good all rounder – just be careful.
June 8th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Well you guys certainly got my attention. My first response was, how fast was this guy going.
Then after thinking for a while i must admit that the back certainly does get untidy for little or no reason, very worrying, i have owned both colts and Isuzu before, No problems there.
Disappointing response from Toyota.Their after sales response will certainly make me reconsider my next purchase.
June 5th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Hi guys.
I’m the guy who started the debate on the 4x4community site.
I drove two Fortuners. My first one (2006 model) had no handling problems. My second one (2008 model) resulted in my serious concerns.
Let’s understand a few things:
Unless you know the road like the palm of your hand, you are insane to exceed 80km/h on gravel.
The car in the photos above must have exceeded 80km/h to have that damage.
My car does this at 60km/h – So all you guys who says I am inexperienced or drives too fast, can go @$#@$#@#$@! If you know me personally you’ll know better. I also grew up on farms with bad roads and learned to drive in old ex-army trucks at age 11.
As from today I will drive a Land Cruiser GX 100 – If all goes well my problems are now sorted and my family will be safe.
I will never buy a new Toyota again – it’s not the vehicles you cannot trust but the people at TSA Head Office. I’m still waiting for feedback that was promised before last Christmas!
Luckily I have a dealership that looks after me and who gives great service which makes up for that.
Safe motoring to you all.
July 30th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Hi Dif,
Lucky enough for you, those old army truck couldn’t go faster than 20 km/h.All cars no matter what you drive is safe when driving at the speed set for that spesific road surface. Tyre presure and suspension plays a big roll in rally cars, wich are build to do high speeds on gravelroads. Have you ever considered buying a rally car…? Keep to the speed limit of 60km/h on gravel and nothing will go wrong, it was developed to be a standerd suv not a rally car.
But if u realy want to drive your fortuner faster than the safe speed limit, buy a new suspention,go for real training and hit it! I did it and im doing speeds of over 100km/h on gravel and no matter what the condition of the surface, it never feels out of control.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I wonder why they went for drum breaks? Any idea? Since my 2006 Fortuner’s handling is sorted out, the drum breaks are my main gripe at this stage. I don’t think the breaks are powerful enough on the old cars.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Drum breaks at the rear. The rear susspension feels stiffer compared to friends’ 2007 model. I tested the ABS on a wet clay road. It functioned very well.
May 21st, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Stoney, thanks for the comment.
What do you expect to see from a 90km/h crash?
Cheers
May 21st, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Thanks Jan. That is very good news!
Tell me, does the new Fortuner come out with rear disk breaks?
May 21st, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I have purchased the 2009 4×4 3.0l diesel Fortuner in February. Since then I did 10 000km. Included in this km was a trip to the remote areas of the Wild Coast and a trip to a Karoo farm on the other side of De Aar.
The Fortuner had similar, if not better, road holding than my 4×4 Isuzu Frontier I owned previously. On two occasions the vehicle stability control sounded a alarm and corrected the yaw of the vehicle.
This vehicle is excellent on and off-road.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:31 am
Ja, right. Bring me any vehicle with such amount of damage at 90km/h. I am a qualified motor assessor and not a Fortuner owner.
December 9th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Stoney forfard me your email, i will gladly forward you 60 km/h roll over photos of my Hilux 4×4 2009 double cab
April 20th, 2009 at 8:39 am
I recently purchased a 2nd hand Fortuner 4lt V6 while on holiday at Kruger Park(a week ago) from a dealer in Phalaborwa. Upto this point I was towing my Caravan with a Hyundai 2.7 V6 Sante fe but found it had no guts for all the serious hill climbs from Cape Town to Kruger via Nelspruit etc. I was a sceptic at first as I had heard all the bad stories of past incidents with Fortuners.I had been debating this purchase for more than six months before taking the plunge on Easter Saturday. I personally have been the owner of no less than 4 Hilux Raiders 4x4s from as far back as 1992 and yes I did roll one but this was due to speed, incorrect tire pressure and being a windgat driver.I ahve towed the length and bredth of SA & Namibia in a Raider. ( See an article I wrote in April edition of Caravan & Outdoor mag) Since last Tuesday 14/4/09 I have covered more than 3000kms mostly towing and can say with conviction that if you stick to the rules you will be ok. On Thursday morning on our return on the Witbank highway we were in the middle of a multi car pile up in thick mist just 400 meters away from the Toll plaza @ Middelburg.(12 cars involved) I can thank my lucky stars I was behind the wheel of a Fortuner. I was able to steer onto the verge and avoid the comotion in front of me without a truck rear ending me in the process. The drop plate on the towbar is a must and at 350mm from ground clearance I can convincingly say I had no sway at all. I left my tyres at 1.8 bar as some of the tar roads are as bad as the gravel roads. I found that the heavy duty trucks ride a “middel mannetjie” into the left lane and you feel this throws you when overtaking. So once again be rational and overtake when safe. I took the vehicle onto gravel without the c/van at the Karoo National park and at found it stable on gravel at the correct speed. Maybe time will prove me wrong but I am of the opinion that if you err on the side of caution when driving these vehicles you will be pretty safe.
Safe Motoring & Hou Kop & dont Dop & Drive !!!
March 25th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Hey guys,
I saw the pics which aren’t a good sight. But the result of the impact flattening the roof from the front up to the rear points out a serious speed issue, in my opinion. I agree very much with Herman because his simple point is that if we excercise a little restraint on ourselves against our desires to push our cars to their limit, which sometimes inadvertently goes beyond that point without our realizing it in those moments, it would more than often save us from trouble.
I can’t see why we cannot slightly lower the bar of thrill and our sense of adventure. Why be dependent on the machine for our own safety when we can keep the control to ourselves? I have done a little pushing of sorts myself but not for a long duration at a time, I enjoyed the moment and let go. Fun it is but I realize its not worth stretching it for long. So I enjoy off-roading and speeding but not beyond the limit of being in control. See guys, thats a very thin line and only you can judge it from the environment that you’re in. So just try to be conscious of your surroundings and always keep a margin for error or a bad patch on the road and you’ll be just fine not to mention having inconsequential fun. Although the worst part is when you dont have the most ideally manufactured vehicle for the purpose; which is hard to find with the individual preferences and competition all around. I dont blame the driver entirely. The amalgamation of comfort, rather luxuriousness, with those spheres of life which require toughness and rigidity do have limits. Why do you think rally cars need to be modified wherein in they lose all elements of luxury from the comfort and some times even that?!! So one shouldn’t try too much adventure with an overall package!
Try to know the abilities of your vehicle which can be learnt without pushing it to the brink of sturdiness. The vehicle can give you a 120kph and more but it cannot surpass the laws of physics on a curve or a depression on the road. No matter how much you adapt to the car’s dynamics and functioning, there is no guarantee that every curve will come with ideal road conditions.
March 24th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Hey guys,
I saw the pics which aren’t a good sight. But the result of impact flattening the roof from the front up to the rear points out a serious speed issue, in my opinion. I agree very much with Herman because his simple point is that if we excercise a little restraint on ourselves against our desires to push our cars upto their limit, which sometimes inadvertently goes beyond that point without our realizing it in those moments, it would more than often save us from trouble.
I can’t see why we cannot slightly lower the bar of thrill and our sense of adventure. Why be dependent on the machine for our own safety when we can keep the control to ourselves? I have done a little pushing of sorts myself but not for a long duration at a time, I enjoyed the moment and let go. Fun it is but I realize its not worth stretching it for long. So I enjoy off-roading and speeding but not beyond the limit of being in control. See guys, thats a very thin line and only you can judge it from the environment that you’re in. So just try to be conscious of your surroundings and always keep a margin for error or a bad patch on the road and you’ll be just fine not to mention having inconsequential fun. Although the worst part is when you dont have the most ideally manufactured vehicle for the purpose; which is hard to find with the individual preferences and competition all around. I dont blame the driver entirely. The amalgamation of comfort, rather luxuriousness, with spheres of life which require toughness and rigidity do have limits. Why do think rally cars need to be modified wherein in they lose all elements of luxury from the comfort and some times even that?!! So one shouldn’t try too much adventure with an overall package!
Try to know the abilities of your vehicle which can be learnt without pushing it to the brink of sturdiness. The vehicle can give you a 120kph and more but it cannot surpass the laws of physics on a curve or a depression on the road. No matter how much you adapt to the car’s dynamics and functioning, there is no guarantee that every curve will come with ideal road conditions.
March 14th, 2009 at 7:41 am
I am glad you are alive. But, other than that people like you make me laugh. I am a professional race driver, on and offroad. First, off-road I only use short-wheel base Jeep Wrangler, Land Rover 88 and Defender 90, all heavily modified and customized, mostly heavy offroading at slow speeds. Why would anyone take a consumer SUV racing offroad? It’s like a bad joke. To race offroad you need a very specialized vehicle, although Niva Lada can do that with minimal modifications. I drove Fortuner in Thailand extensively, great on-road car, but it’s definitely not for offroad racing. And I see too many people race junk on the road. I only race mid-engines on the road, they have the best balance and handling. First problem is the choice of vehicle, and second choice is lack of true racing skills of drivers. Again, you are very lucky, because in USA many people roll over their SUVs and die. Rollbars on Jeeps and Land Rover save your life in case of a rollover. Be careful next time you decide to race wrong car without the right skills.
February 22nd, 2009 at 8:33 am
herman ek stem heeltemal saam met jou. in die omgewing waar ek boer, ry al ons boere se vroue, omtrent 90 % van hulle fortuners. Nie een van hulle het enige probleem ervaar nie, want hulle weet hoe ‘n grond pad “kan wees”. Maar so 2 weke terug het daar ‘n wit fortuner op sy dak gele nie ver van ons plaas hek af nie. Ek was van die eerstes wat daar was en het toevallig ‘n banddruk meter by my gegad en het die druk geneem. 2.8 bar, dis moeilikheid soek, en die pad het sinkplate, slaggate en het dan ook stukke wat mooi is. Die persone, 3 van hulle, het darem nie seer gekry nie, die drywer wat homself as ‘n “profesionele” grondpad bestuurder “voorgestel” het (soos wat enige ou wat lyk my ‘n fortuner koop deesdae is), het vir my gese hy sal nie weer ‘n fortuner in sy lewe ry nie. Maar terselfde tyd se sy kollega vir hom hy kan ook nie verwag om veilig by sy bestemming uit te kom teen die L.W. 130km/h wat hulle gery het nie. Hulle kan maar net op hulle kniee gaan en dankie se dat hulle nog leef. So ek stem saam met herman , soos hy se , die probleem is “PEBSAS”.
Die Toyota handelaar waarby ek is, het al ‘n paar eienaars wat gekla het se fortuners ondersoek en het ook ondervind dat die gewoonlik die “PEBSAS” is. Maar dis nou kan mens mos nie die “goeie drywers” wys op hulle foute nie. Want hulle is mos almal perfek.
Dit is my eerlike opinie en een van ‘n paar ervarings wat ek al ervaar het, maar dis mos maklik om eerder vinger te wil wys.
Aan Gillian, ek dink aan julle met die verlies van ‘n familielid.
Maar ek weet sommer uit ervaring uit dat spoed die probleem was. En dan kaptein, jy kan ‘n fortuner/’n colt of enige fabrikaat bring na my plaas pad toe, ek sal jou graag ‘n ding of twee wil wys. Want iemand wat 90km/h of vinniger op ‘n grondpad ry soek moeilikheid, en dan wil hulle nog kla ook. Dis net so goed soos wat ek met my motorfiets 120 km/h in die veld ry en ‘n klip of ‘n sloot vang en dan wil vinger wys na die fabrikaat.
‘n lekker dag verder aan julle almal
Danie Bester
February 22nd, 2009 at 8:13 am
Hi Kaptein.
I am really sorry that Gillian’s niece has passed away, and that it happened in such an unFortunate accident. My condolences.
I’m not really in the camp of “Fortuner pilots are stupid” and that is not the point I am trying to make. I am just saying that the Fortuner have lots of power and is still a SUV with a high center of gravity. These facts, with the fact that people like to drive them at high speeds, (and I’ve seen them on the highways coming past me as though I’m standing still while actually driving 120) compound to make a dangerous situation. This goes for all the SUV type vehicles.
I realize that Gillian’s comment was about her niece that passed away. But it also states, or at least implies that it was as a result of an accident in a Fortuner, which was caused by aquaplaning and then rolling. If that is not the case, then maybe the full details should be posted so that people are not misled as I have been, and I apologize for that.
In the context of this whole discussion/thread this comment is very much directed towards the reputation that Fortuners are getting for being unsafe and accident prone. And it is in that context that I am making my comments.
Gillian’s statement implies that the accident was because of an aquaplaning vehicle. This usually is caused by hitting water at a high speed. I’ve never heard of a car aquaplaning when going through water at a correct speed. Now, stuff happens, and the roads sometimes throws a curve ball. By surprising people with a sudden amount of water. So it might have been a freak accident, as all accidents tend to be, thus they are accidents. I’m sure nobody knowingly causes an accident. (there might be some exceptions).
For clarification I restate my point. I don’t think Fortuners are bad vehicles. (I don’t like Toyota vehicles, and will therefor never buy one. For my own reasons.) I don’t think Fortuner pilots are bad people, or drivers. I do know this, that people drive powerful cars quickly because the car allows people to do this. Sometimes people do not realize that they actually do not have the skill to drive cars at high speed. (as I am sure that most people on our roads have not done advanced driving courses, and in the case of SUV’s, the focus of driving courses are more about driving those vehicles off-road) All these factors make a dangerous situation, partly because of the vehicle, partly because of the driver. Now the reality is that the only fact/parameter that can change, and that we have control over as drivers, is ourselves and our behavior. Thus I suggest that people start driving more responsibly, and I know that nobody wants to be called irresponsible, but I do think that we have a problem, in general, on our roads that people drive at too high a speed, and it is the nature of the creatures that we are, that we tend to blame other factors than ourselves. I am saying also that many accidents could have been avoided if people were more responsible.
I don’t see any reference at the Euro NCAP on the Fortuner. I don’t see that the vehicle is sold in Australia. The closest reference I see of the vehicle is the Toyota 4Runner in the USA. I’m not sure if this is the same vehicle under different branding/badging. So it does seem that maybe it is a vehicle unique to South Africa, I don’t honestly think that that would be the case. But organizations such as Euro NCAP tests the safety of vehicles, both active and passive safety features. It seems, unfortunately, that they do not test vehicle handling. Have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZF8N9NItHI
It is very interesting….. make your own conclusions. I’m sure the Hilux has different suspension setup that the Fortuner, but it has similar center of gravity as the Fortuner. Maybe people have a case when they say that the car is unsafe, but then their driving style has to adapt to accommodate that, or they should stay away and not buy the car. I for one, will not buy any Toyota product. But then again, that’s just me.
If I can talk about myself for a minute. I drive a Mahindra Scorpio. This car is also a SUV with a high center of gravity. It, too, can drive at high speed, in excess of 140 km/h.
February 21st, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Herman, with all due respect, Gillian’s comment was about her niece that died. I do realise this article is about the Fortuner problem, but let’s keep that in mind.
Gillian never said they were speeding, so I don’t see how you can make that assumption? I happen to know the detail of this accident, and the accident was not caused by hitting the water at excessive speed.
Your humble opinion is noted, but since you obviously sit in the “Problem Fortuner drivers are stupid” camp, I don’t agree with you.
February 21st, 2009 at 4:57 pm
B.T.W. In the first story we have an admission of someone who is driving too quickly for given terrain. Law states a speed limit of 80 km/h on gravel roads, unless otherwise indicated. This person admits to driving 90 km/h in the Fortuner, and 110 km/h in a Colt Rodeo. This just proves my point that I am trying to make above.
Way back in the early 80′s my dad had a Leyland Rover 2.6l (the one with the straight six engine) A lovely car in those days. He had an rollover at 80 km/h on a gravel road somewhere on the west coast. The car slided, and hit that little ridge at the side of a gravel road after it has been scraped. That car had a low center of gravity. Now compare that to a Fortuner for instance, which has a much higher center of gravity. It is no wonder that so many of these things roll over, given the way they are driven.
February 21st, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Wow Gillian, Just that word ‘aquaplaned’ says something. It says too much speed. It is a fact that if you hit water at to high a speed, your vehicle will aquaplane. No matter what you drive. (maybe and Olifant Tank and a Ratel will be excluded from this comment, but then again, an Olifant Tank can’t go quick enough to lift its weight on water.)
What I am saying is that you can hardly blame a Fortuner for aquaplaning if it is driven at too high a speed. The car can’t fix driver error. (That goes for all these new BMW and Merc thingys with all the stability gizmos as well.)
I must admit that I tend to think that many of the troubles laid before the Fortuner door might not have a thing to do with the car, but more to do with a PEBSAS problem. (Problem Exists Between Steering Wheel and Seat). The Fortuner has a nice powerful engine, and that invites the inner South African speed freaks to drive the car at 150 km/h on tar or 120 km/h on gravel roads. It can do so very easily. But that is exactly the problem. I find that few people have the self-discipline to NOT drive the car quickly. Just watch the guys on the freeways around Gauteng. They drive at mad speeds, not because THEY can, but because the CAR can.
So people are reckless, and then the car gets the blame. In my opinion a case of S.E.P. (Someone elses problem) It is easier to blame someone or something else for the accident than it is to face up to the reality. We mess up….
My humble opinion.
February 20th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Hi
My niece was killed in a Toyota Fortuner on the 4th of February. The car aquaplaned and rolled.
February 19th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Hi Gents. I have a 4.0 L Petrol Auto 4×4 Fortuner and have a few comments to make on the dirt road handling of the fortuner. If the vehicle is empty, in H, tyres at normal pressure and with OEM suspension then you are looking for trouble if you hit a corrugated patch of dirt road (especially if on a corner)when you are above 60km/h. There is no mistaking loss of control over the back end of the vehicle. If you engage HL (High lock) before you enter the dirt road the problem reduces by about 40%. If the vehicle is heavily loaded or towing a heavy trailer (pressure on the tow bar) then the problem is also reduced. The problem has to lie with the coil spring and small shock absorber arrangement that Toyota installed on these vehicles. The Factory shocks on these vehicles are clearly not strong enough to handle the oscillations produced by a combination of the heavy diff and those big tyres over a corrugated patch of dirt road. Narrower tyres (different brands) and after market shocks and spring combo prove this.I wont change my Fortuner for any other vehicle but this really is a problem that Toyota could have prevented and one that almost cost us our vehicle and perhaps our lives in a very simillar close shave.
Regards
Vincent
January 20th, 2009 at 5:27 am
Danie, I hear you. See my answer to the previous post. On the old standard tires I used to deflate to 1.6, but not with the Bridgestone AT. I am open to suggestions though.
Regarding 4H, each and every one of the 2000km gravel road travel we did was in 4H. This really makes a HUGE difference.
January 20th, 2009 at 5:25 am
Thanks Herman.
We went to Namibia over the holidays, and did about 4000km in total, of which about 2000km was on gravel. I asked many people their opinion on gravel road tire pressure, and all I can say for sure is that everyone has an opinion.
I have heard stories about deflating to 1.6, all the way to 3 bar on gravel. Myself, I kept the pressure at 2.5bar with a heavily laden Fortuner, and the car handled like a dream. This was with Bridgestone AT and Camil suspension.
January 11th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Correction, the increase in pressure are .3 to .5 bar, not 3 to 5 bar.
January 9th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Personally I like to keep my tyres at the pressure stated in the owners manual (on tar). On my vehicle (Mahindra Scorpio Pikup D/C 4×4) that is 2 bar all round.
When I go off-road I deflate to at least 1.7 bar and I always engage 4H when travelling on gravel at high speed.
When I tow my off-road caravan (Imagine Trailvan) and have all my kit in the car, I increase the above pressure by 3 to 5 bar. (thus 2.3-2.5 bar on tar, and 2.0-2.2 bar on gravel). To date, I have had no stability problems. My tyres are Bridgstone Dueler A/T D694 (Size 245/75R16), and I have the standard shocks on the vehicle.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:58 am
just shows you, no matter how many times you drive on a gravel road, it changes daily. It’s not nice to see something like this. Personally i think 3 bar is asking for trouble on a gravel road, i prefer 1.8 bar, no problems. Fitted 265 michellins, now it goes like a dream.
December 8th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Hans, I am in the same boat. Some people told me to always reduce pressure to 1.6 bar, Toyota says to always keep it at 2.1 bar, and then other people told me to always pump the tires to 3 bar. I honestly don’t know which option is the right one.
All I know is that my 1997 4 door passenger car stays stable on a gravel road at 100km/h, regardless of the fact that the tires were deflates or inflates beforehand.
December 8th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Pic’s look really bad, he’s lucky to survive. I heard exactly the opposite advice, pump tires to 3 bar when towing. I leave my tires this hard on the Fortuner, with the soft coil springs, you never know when you might need it